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5/23/17 9:49 AM 

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,723)
Brantford, ON

Exodus 20:16

KJV
King James Version
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Seems that some think because they are a particular denomination, it excuses them from having to tell the truth. Not all Catholics claim this, but one on here does.


Quote from ludlowlowell:
You don't if you are an OSAS believer. If you are an OSAS believer you believe you can break all ten commandments and still go to Heaven, just because you believe in Jesus.

"If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still."

--Martin Luther





And where did Martin Luther ever say that?

Its funny, I googled the following : "Did Martin Luther say ,"If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still."?

Do you know how many hits I had?

Four only, and all 4? Are from guess who, on here at DH.

Martin Luther advised adultery and blasphemy. - Datehookup
www.datehookup.ca/thread-1461062.htm
Dec 5, 2016 - In this video there are two very interesting quotes from Martin Luther, one of which I .. ... "He must have committed adultery with her, otherwise, why did He let her off so easy?" is what Voris ..... "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still." ... But Lud is right, Luther is famous for saying "sin boldly".
The Church's Two Greatest Failures - Datehookup
m.datehookup.com/thread-964726.htm
Some say it has reached a $57 - 60 Billion here in. America. ... all, they did create this term and it's definition) holds two .... Why not condemn the teachings of Martin Luther, who said, "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still." Isn't that ...
What is a merciful God? - Datehookup
www.datehookup.com/thread-1465626.htm
Feb 25, 2017 - 60 posts - ?5 authors
If the universe did need a cause, then there's the old chestnut that the First ..... "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still", and who taught that, ... Protestants don't believe as you say Martin Luther taught and I doubt he ...
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So, where did you get that "quote Lud"?

Did you make it up, paraphrase another, or take it out of context like you did another of his quotes?

Lud thinks he is making his Salvation. That is idolatry, he is placing him self, his Popes and Priests as the author of his Salvation .

Sad, he has no idea what works are for.

This is a quote by Martin Luther:

God does not need your good works, but your neighbor does.
Martin Luther

TOP 25 QUOTES BY MARTIN LUTHER (of 957) | A-Z Quotes
www.azquotes.com/author/9142-Martin_Luther


Watch him wiggle his way out of having to cite where that quote comes from.




[Edited 5/23/2017 9:50:47 AM ]

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5/23/17 11:22 AM 
brashdoc
Over 2,000 Posts (3,407)
Chehalis, WA

Thought you might enjoy this humor Rich. In my favorite fan on here's thread, Requezas, mentioned: "isna and brashdoc, batman and robin? Say it isn't so!" Thanks Requezas, for the good humor!

We are the masked cape crusaders of DHU, taking on all heretics & maligners, flying around in the batmobile. LOL.

Oh wait. My favorite fan pulled a new rabbit out of the magic hat. He said 'heretic' wasn't in the Bible also. Tsk Tsk. Always pulling words out of the Bible & substituting his own twisted version. Using his famous Strong's concordance, which he only believes Mr. Strong half the time, he now informs us that a 'heretic' has now become a 'sect!' Wow. A miracle has occurred. He put in a human being in his famous ancient Hebrew/Greek magic hat and suddenly pulled out a SECT. Now where did that human being go? He has now turned into a whole sect. Such is the comedy show show here on DHU. Stay tuned for more hilarious escaades, 'As the Heretic Turns & Magically Disappears.'


5/23/17 11:25 AM 
brashdoc
Over 2,000 Posts (3,407)
Chehalis, WA

http://media.photobucket.com/user/Midgetmania619/media/Batman-and-Robin_UP.gif.html?filters[term]=batman%20and%20robin&filters[primary]=images

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww107/Midgetmania619/Batman-and-Robin_UP.gif


5/23/17 12:04 PM 

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,723)
Brantford, ON





Ha, ha, ha, that is hilarious.

Thought you might enjoy this humor Rich. In my favorite fan on here's thread, Requezas, mentioned: "isna and brashdoc, batman and robin? Say it isn't so!" Thanks Requezas, for the good humor!

We are the masked cape crusaders of DHU, taking on all heretics & maligners, flying around in the batmobile. LOL.

Oh wait. My favorite fan pulled a new rabbit out of the magic hat. He said 'heretic' wasn't in the Bible also. Tsk Tsk. Always pulling words out of the Bible & substituting his own twisted version. Using his famous Strong's concordance, which he only believes Mr. Strong half the time, he now informs us that a 'heretic' has now become a 'sect!' Wow.


Let me guess, in his special Koine Greek, not known until AE Knoch came around and saved the Scriptures, "heretic' means "sect"?

A miracle has occurred. He put in a human being in his famous ancient Hebrew/Greek magic hat and suddenly pulled out a SECT. Now where did that human being go? He has now turned into a whole sect. Such is the comedy show show here on DHU. Stay tuned for more hilarious escaades, 'As the Heretic Turns & Magically Disappears.'




Jesus turned water into wine, perhaps he turned BigD`s hash into LSD?

Nice day here Doc, so you can take the Batmobile, I shall use the Bat Bike!




[Edited 5/23/2017 12:06:03 PM ]

5/23/17 12:06 PM 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (36,368)
Panama City, FL
online now!


The quote from Luther, "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still" I got from a book titled "The Facts About Luther" by Patrick O'Hare. Some other quotes from Luther from that book: "If anyone should still believe in the stupid ten commandments, let him chase himself to the Jews". "If the wife will not, let the maid come."

There is one quote about Luther I remember reading somewhere, to the effect that blacks and Indians were sub-human, did not possess souls, and that there was no point in sending missionaries to them (remember Luther founded His new religion only 25 years after Columbus reached America). However, I haven't been able to verify this one. Anybody know where I can find this?

What is a Protestant? A follower of Martin Luther. What is a Catholic? A follower of Jesus Christ.


5/23/17 2:14 PM 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,259)
Kingman, AZ
online now!


Isna, agreed.

And even if Luther said such a thing, that doesn't mean: "If you are an OSAS believer you believe you can break all ten commandments and still go to Heaven, just because you believe in Jesus."

Ludlow is a known liar.

"We Catholics have some — and not some, many — who believe they possess the absolute truth and go ahead dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil. They do evil. I say this because it is my Church." [The pope] further added that "fundamentalism is more idolatry than actual religion, warning that 'ideas and false certainties' can take the place of faith, love, and God." -Pope Francis

Quote from isna_la_wica:
Exodus 20:16

KJV
King James Version
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Seems that some think because they are a particular denomination, it excuses them from having to tell the truth. Not all Catholics claim this, but one on here does.


Quote from ludlowlowell:
You don't if you are an OSAS believer. If you are an OSAS believer you believe you can break all ten commandments and still go to Heaven, just because you believe in Jesus.

"If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still."

--Martin Luther





And where did Martin Luther ever say that?

Its funny, I googled the following : "Did Martin Luther say ,"If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still."?

Do you know how many hits I had?

Four only, and all 4? Are from guess who, on here at DH.

Martin Luther advised adultery and blasphemy. - Datehookup
www.datehookup.ca/thread-1461062.htm
Dec 5, 2016 - In this video there are two very interesting quotes from Martin Luther, one of which I .. ... "He must have committed adultery with her, otherwise, why did He let her off so easy?" is what Voris ..... "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still." ... But Lud is right, Luther is famous for saying "sin boldly".
The Church's Two Greatest Failures - Datehookup
m.datehookup.com/thread-964726.htm
Some say it has reached a $57 - 60 Billion here in. America. ... all, they did create this term and it's definition) holds two .... Why not condemn the teachings of Martin Luther, who said, "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still." Isn't that ...
What is a merciful God? - Datehookup
www.datehookup.com/thread-1465626.htm
Feb 25, 2017 - 60 posts - ?5 authors
If the universe did need a cause, then there's the old chestnut that the First ..... "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still", and who taught that, ... Protestants don't believe as you say Martin Luther taught and I doubt he ...
Evidence for Evolution | Page 2 60 posts 20 Mar 2017
Are non-Christians our brothers? 60 posts 6 Dec 2016
Does Gods GRACE , wink at sin? 12 posts 18 Apr 2015
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The Doctrine of Transubstantiation is False! | Page 70
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Sep 22, 2016 - Yahweh, through His only begotten Son Jesus Christ, did change the food ... Matthew 5:18 ” For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or ...... What Martin Luther, in his reformation, failed to realize is that even ...


So, where did you get that "quote Lud"?

Did you make it up, paraphrase another, or take it out of context like you did another of his quotes?

Lud thinks he is making his Salvation. That is idolatry, he is placing him self, his Popes and Priests as the author of his Salvation .

Sad, he has no idea what works are for.

This is a quote by Martin Luther:

God does not need your good works, but your neighbor does.
Martin Luther

TOP 25 QUOTES BY MARTIN LUTHER (of 957) | A-Z Quotes
www.azquotes.com/author/9142-Martin_Luther


Watch him wiggle his way out of having to cite where that quote comes from.


5/23/17 4:33 PM 

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,723)
Brantford, ON

Quote from ludlowlowell:
The quote from Luther, "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still" I got from a book titled "The Facts About Luther" by Patrick O'Hare. Some other quotes from Luther from that book: "If anyone should still believe in the stupid ten commandments, let him chase himself to the Jews". "If the wife will not, let the maid come."

There is one quote about Luther I remember reading somewhere, to the effect that blacks and Indians were sub-human, did not possess souls, and that there was no point in sending missionaries to them (remember Luther founded His new religion only 25 years after Columbus reached America). However, I haven't been able to verify this one. Anybody know where I can find this?

What is a Protestant? A follower of Martin Luther. What is a Catholic? A follower of Jesus Christ.


Then you are reading a book that lies.

And you lie when you insinuate that all of us who believe in OSAS advocate breaking the 10 commandments.

You do not like Luther? No problem, I am not his biggest fan. But not liking someone does not give you the right to tell fibs and promote hate. Want to compare Luther to Leo and the sales of indulgences?

And that ai`t no lie.

But I guess you have a lic to lie. All you have to do is go to confession and like 007, make it legal.


5/23/17 5:55 PM 
brashdoc
Over 2,000 Posts (3,407)
Chehalis, WA

https://web.archive.org/web/20140528104851/http://tquid.sharpens.org/sin_boldly.htm

Luther's Letter to Melanchthon with the true full quote, not the INFAMOUS misquoted “sin boldly” statement:

“If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place of righteousness, but, as Peter says, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. It is enough that by the riches of God’s glory we have come to know the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day. Do you think that the purchase price that was paid for the redemption of our sins by so great a Lamb is too small? Pray boldly—you too are a mighty sinner.

So we see that the quote you gave Lud, isn't correct; it is only a partial quote. That is why you can't search & find it. The author of the book you quote from has been shown to quote Luther only partially & out of context in many places. I will speak more to that shortly.

"GOD DOES NOT SAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE ONLY FICTITIOUS SINNERS. Be a sinner & sin boldly, but believe & rejoice in Christ even more boldly, FOR HE IS VICTORIOUS OVER SIN, DEATH & THE WORLD."

That is the whole quote and the larger one above is the quote in its context. So once we see that, we can understand the hyperbole Luther is using for not only this full quote but also the one below it. Melancthon had never committed murder or fornication even one time as was testified of his life. Yet Luther is apparently using 'reductio ad absurdum' (Latin for "reduction to absurdity"--by showing one has to be a sinner for redemption & grace to be effective & his illustrations inevitably lead to a ridiculous, absurd conclusion. So was Luther trying to make Melancthon sin? Of course not. He taught consistently against this. He was trying to magnify the great cost & purchase price paid for our redemption & the exceedingly great grace & forgiveness given to us in Christ. The fact that the Catholic father quoting this left out the last part: 'for He (Christ) is VICTORIOUS OVER SIN, DEATH & THE WORLD' shows his clear bias & animosity toward Luther, making it look like he was condoning sin. He & other Catholics have pounced on this & have gone so far as saying Luther was mentally deranged for saying such a thing--including this Catholic father!

If you doubt this Catholic father in his book was not out to assassinate Luther's character & discredit him in every way possible, just see a summary of what he wrote about Luther in his book:

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2006/04/defending-ohares-facts-about-luther.html

Father O’Hare presents a Luther who is not only mad, but morally depraved and corrupt. He asserts that Luther in the Wartburg was in close touch with Satan. Luther lived indecently, decried celibacy and virginity, sanctioned adultery, dishonored marriage, authorized prostitution and polygamy, and was a drunkard and frequenter of taverns who preached his theology in the fumes of alcohol in the midst of his fellow revolutionaries. He attributes to Luther a fickle and cunning character, an inordinate impudence, an unbridled presumption, a titanic pride, a despotic nature, and a spirit of blasphemy; Luther was a blasphemer, a libertine, a revolutionary, a hater of religious vows, a disgrace to the religious calling, an enemy of domestic felicity, the father of divorce, the advocate of polygamy, and the propagator of immorality and open licentiousness. (James Atkinson, Martin Luther: Prophet to the Church Catholic, 4).

All of these thoughts from Father O’Hare are easy enough to track down from the book. He has taken isolated quotes from Luther, often out of context, poorly documented [some cannot be found attributable to Luther] & presented a gross distortion of Luther’s life.

The author of this website showed these things to a well known Catholic apologist, who had Father O'Hare's information on his website. Upon closer examination, he took them off his website. Here is what this Catholic apologist said about Father O'Hare's book.

"This work (like many Catholic treatments of a hundred years or so ago) is very intemperate & lacking in charity towards Luther & I agree that (for this reason) it is not a very good or objective source (I used to cite it when O'Hare documented his claims from Luther's own words, but no longer do at all...[Father O'Hare] describes Luther as 'a victim of fleshly lust & one in constant contact with Satan.' I join him in wholeheartedly condemning this sort of slanderous garbage."

So, Lud, you have condemned many for bashing the Catholics but you in hypocrisy, are bashing those Christians outside the Catholic church, saying they are not saved, etc. & using inaccurate & slanderous information about Luther. This is beneath you. Make sure you check your sources out before posting. Thank you.




[Edited 5/23/2017 5:57:07 PM ]

5/23/17 7:48 PM 

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,723)
Brantford, ON

Thank you Doc.

I looked and looked hard this morning and read man, many quotes by Luther. I have run into this in the past before with Lud paraphrasing stuff, from Bible verses to quotes, and that can change the meaning a lot.

I wanted to make sure of my self, that the quote was not what Luther had said. In fact, it goes against many other quotes attributed to Luther. But found nothing at all, no wonder.

This was not just paraphrasing but a deliberate alteration done by taking a portion completely out of context. Reminds me of what another poster does on here.

I do not like it when I attack Catholics, they get a bum rap on here by many. And I have many I respect, I miss the input here by deneez. That Lady made me think hard and I learned so much from her. And there is a Catholic Priest where I live, who helps out at suppers we organize among 4 different churches for the homeless. He is amazing, actually gets his hands dirty and works! lol, unlike a few others of the cloth, who like to play rock star.

But this stuff from lud, cannot be over looked. He needs to learn he can disagree with demonizing, like another on here, I will let you guess who. lol.

I hope lud reads your post, and acts accordingly. But some how figure, a few months from now? Will just repeat the same stuff all over again.


5/23/17 10:40 PM 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (36,368)
Panama City, FL
online now!


Thank you indeed, Doc. So Luther did indeed say, if you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still.

Take your choice: Luther or Christ.


5/23/17 11:47 PM 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,259)
Kingman, AZ
online now!


*
Pope Leo X
"Since God has given us the papacy, let us enjoy it."

"It has served us well, this myth of Christ."

All ages can testifie enough how profitable that fable of Christe hath ben to us and our companie."


5/24/17 3:39 AM 
brashdoc
Over 2,000 Posts (3,407)
Chehalis, WA

No Lud, that is NOT what Luther said. Now you are trying to make me out to be a liar, one who has shown you the truth, verified by documented historical evidence.

How many times, Lud, does the truth of what Luther said be shown to you from historical documents, verifying what he actually said, in context, before you will believe it rather than believe a slandering, lying Catholic father, even admitted to by a Catholic apologist? At least he was able to see it clearly & admit to it.


"Be a sinner & sin boldly, but believe AND REJOICE IN CHRIST EVEN MORE BOLDLY, FOR HE IS VICTORIOUS OVER SIN, DEATH & THE WORLD."

Need it a second time?

"Be a sinner & sin boldly, but believe AND REJOICE IN CHRIST EVEN MORE BOLDLY, FOR HE IS VICTORIOUS OVER SIN, DEATH & THE WORLD."

Are you going to continue to perpetuate a lie, deliberately knowing the truth, like father O'Hare did?

Romans 2:1-6 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things IS BASED ON TRUTH. So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them & yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show CONTEMPT for the riches of His kindness, forbearance & patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to REPENTANCE? But because of your STUBBORNNESS & UNREPENTANT HEART, you are storing up wrath AGAINST YOURSELF for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

I Tim 5:24,25 The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others, their sins follow after. In the same way, good deeds are obvious & even the ones that are inconspicuous cannot remain hidden.

Mt 12:35-37 The good man brings good things out of his good store of treasure & the evil man brings evil things out of his evil store of treasure. But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for EVERY CARELESS WORD they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted & by your words you will be condemned.”

I have been posting on the coming judgment from the One Who will judge the living & the dead, the Lord Jesus Christ. He is bringing the wrath of God upon the whole earth. And He taught the above passage. Do we not fear greatly what we say? Are we not realizing that for every careless word we will be judged, whether acquitted or condemned?

What is it that will condemn us? God? No. We are ALREADY CONDEMNED.


Jn 3:17-21 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe STANDS CONDEMNED ALREADY because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in God.


It will be our very own words, thoughts & deeds. There are books opened at the end, at the great white throne judgment, & the unbelieving were judged by what was written in the books.

Do we not fear rightly before God?

You talk a good talk on how important works are. Which works are you doing now, good works in Christ or evil works promoting lies? May God have mercy on you! May God have mercy on all of us.




[Edited 5/24/2017 3:41:39 AM ]

5/24/17 9:08 AM 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (36,368)
Panama City, FL
online now!


I read the context. Luther thinks it's better to be a bold sinner/bold believer than be a person who keeps all the commandments from childhood, something many of the saints did (I have not myself, I admit).

Take your choice, Brashdoc. Sin boldly and believe more boldly still, or strive for a life of holiness. Luther or Christ, your choice.


5/24/17 9:18 AM 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (36,368)
Panama City, FL
online now!


Catholicism: God's mercy is a chance for me to repent and live a better life.

Protestantism, and other heresies down through the centuries: God's mercy means I can sin all I want and still vo to Heaven. God will let me in just because I am a believer.


5/24/17 9:48 AM 

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,723)
Brantford, ON

Why does Lud think he is exempt, from the 10 commandments ?

Exodus 20:16

KJV
King James Version
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Even after he has been shown,m he persists.





5/24/17 12:30 PM 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (36,368)
Panama City, FL
online now!


I didn't bear false witness. I said that Luther said that when we sin, we should sin boldly, but believe more boldly still, and Brashdoc found the quote where he said that.

Christians have to choose---do we want Luther and his broad way of anything goes so long as we believe (sola fide), or do we want Christ and His insistence that we follow the straight and narrow way?


5/24/17 10:20 PM 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,259)
Kingman, AZ
online now!


Quote from isna_la_wica:


Even after he has been shown,m he persists.



The term "brain dead" comes to mind.


5/25/17 9:50 AM 

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,723)
Brantford, ON

Quote from ludlowlowell:
I didn't bear false witness. I said that Luther said that when we sin, we should sin boldly, but believe more boldly still, and Brashdoc found the quote where he said that.

Christians have to choose---do we want Luther and his broad way of anything goes so long as we believe (sola fide), or do we want Christ and His insistence that we follow the straight and narrow way?


And Doc showed you how it was taken out of context, and yet you still do it.

You have been shown your error but still ignore the commandments . Your lic to sin found in a ritual will not help you.


5/25/17 9:56 AM 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (36,368)
Panama City, FL
online now!


What was the context? That you might as well go ahead and sin like a banshee, because God will forgive all? At least all believers?

"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."

--James 1:22


5/25/17 1:43 PM 

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,723)
Brantford, ON

Proverbs 6:16-19 ESV / 1,101 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

Proverbs 19:9 ESV / 920 helpful votes

A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish.

Proverbs 12:22 ESV / 883 helpful votes

Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight.

Psalm 101:7 ESV

No one who practices deceit shall dwell in my house; no one who utters lies shall continue before my eyes.

Colossians 3:9-10 ESV

Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.

Luke 8:17 ESV

For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.

Proverbs 12:19 ESV

Truthful lips endure forever, but a lying tongue is but for a moment.

1 John 2:4 ESV

Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,



5/25/17 3:08 PM 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,259)
Kingman, AZ
online now!


And don't forget this one:

Proverbs 11:20 They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD.

Ludlow is froward personified. He refuses to obey Jesus, he defies and contradicts Jesus, and he says his own pope ("the vicar of Christ") is the worst pope in 500 years. Ludlow is a malcontent.

"...if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (Matthew 6:14)

But Ludlow/Satan contradicts Jesus and says: "God forgives repentant sinners only. God does not forgive everyone who forgives others."

"But thou, when thou prayest, ...pray to thy Father." Mat 6:6

Ludlow/Satan: I would recommend that people pray sometimes to Mary or one of the saints... Let the prayer life have some variety.

Ludlow also says: "Yes, I speak for God."

Quote from isna_la_wica:
Proverbs 6:16-19 ESV / 1,101 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

Proverbs 19:9 ESV / 920 helpful votes

A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish.

Proverbs 12:22 ESV / 883 helpful votes

Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight.

Psalm 101:7 ESV

No one who practices deceit shall dwell in my house; no one who utters lies shall continue before my eyes.

Colossians 3:9-10 ESV

Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.

Luke 8:17 ESV

For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.

Proverbs 12:19 ESV

Truthful lips endure forever, but a lying tongue is but for a moment.

1 John 2:4 ESV

Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,



5/25/17 4:14 PM 
brashdoc
Over 2,000 Posts (3,407)
Chehalis, WA

I am going to quote two people on here in their exact words:

Lud: "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still."
Father O'Hare: "If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still."

These are the only people who have said this. Martin Luther didn't say this. You have broken one of God's commandments in Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."


I am going to quote again someone who directly said this:

Lud: "Thank you indeed, Doc. So Luther did indeed say, 'If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still.' Take your choice: Luther or Christ."

I didn't say that but you thank me for confirming that Martin Luther said that exact quote. You have borne false witness again & against me this time. I didn't do that at all. Again you are 'now sinning boldly & believe more boldly still'--a LIE. Twice now you have born false witness & have done it from a stubborn unrepentant heart, not only lying about what Martin Luther said, but continuing to lie about me, saying I said your lie and I have at least 3 witnesses that can testify to you doing this, which is according to Scripture again.

You are doing the very thing you accused Martin Luther of & doing it BOLDLY, BOLDLY SINNING & BOLDLY BELIEVING A LIE and not only that but perpetuating that lie.

Not only that but you are bearing false witness against Jesus Christ Himself! You say take your choice: Luther or Christ.

Would Jesus Christ condone you bearing false witness against someone? Absolutely not! And this has nothing to do with Catholicism. The Catholic apologist took down the false information of Father O'Hare off his website. He was a good Catholic. He agreed to the false information & would not promote a lie anymore. He repented. Yet what you are doing has to do with your hatred of Martin Luther & your stubborness to sin boldly. You refuse to repent. Please be honest & seek the mercy of God for this.



What happens to a person who persists in lying & bearing false witness against others & refuses to repent? You know what happens to that unrepentant person. Also several other things happen when people persist in their lying. They go from bearing false witness to slander & malignment--with the intent to do HARM to someone, whether physically or to impugning their character & committing character assasination. I showed you that your quoting Martin Luther on another occasion on here was incorrect; that it was found to be attributed to someone else. You ignored the truth & shortly after that again attributed that erroneous quote once again to Martin Luther. Your hatred of the man is evident, to the point where you will slander him falsely, even after knowing the truth.

As the Apostle James says, It is written: "For whoever keeps the whole law & yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For He who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. So speak & act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because JUDGMENT WITHOUT MERCY will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful.

You have become a lawbreaker & guilty of all the commandments. And you are showing judgment without mercy, because you persist in bearing false witness.

Here is how you go even further in bearing false witness:

Lud: "You might as well go ahead & sin like a banshee, because God will forgive all?

Did Luther say that? Absolutely not! Did Lud say that? Absolutely true. And by using the illustration of sinning like a banshee, have slandered Martin Luther with a demonic label. Have you ever listened to 'A Mighty Fortress Is Our God' lately? Martin Luther promoted no such activity but fought the good fight against it.

Quote: "Christians have to choose---do we want Luther and his broad way of anything goes so long as we believe."

Again you bear false witness & accuse Luther of yet another thing he didn't do: 'his broad way of anything goes so long as we believe.' Your slander of Martin Luther is unexcusable & your aspersive comments show you believe Luther was on the broad wide road to hell. Your evident hatred has so warped your judgment that you will stubbornly persist in false witness once again.

Let me try it one more time. This is what was verified as to what Luther actually said in an historical extant document: "Be a sinner & sin boldly, but believe AND REJOICE IN CHRIST EVEN MORE BOLDLY, FOR HE IS VICTORIOUS OVER SIN, DEATH & THE WORLD."

Will you admit this to be the true quote or are you going to insist on your & Father O'Hare's quote as the truth one despite it being conclusively shown to be false?

This is the ONLY STATEMENT that Luther actually said. If you deny it one more time stating that Luther said something else than what he actually said, then you sir, by your own words & false judgment are the one on the wide road.

In fact when you read the actual whole quote of Martin Luther, what DID he actually say?
The believe part is NOT IN PROMOTING SIN AT ALL. The believe part has to do with REJOICING in Christ even more boldly than sinning boldly? Why? One does this more boldly because our Lord Jesus Christ gives the Christian VICTORY OVER SIN! So the sin boldly is actually overcome. Christ gives the Christian victory over having to sin! Christ gives the Christian victory over death, there no more being that sting of death for us in Christ. And Christ gives us victory over having to love the world or participate in it at all! We have VICTORY OVER THE LUST OF THE FLESH, THE LUST OF THE EYES & THE BOASTFUL PRIDE OF LIFE.

Now THAT what Martin Luther SAID! We believe this MORE BOLDLY: WE HAVE VICTORY over needing to sin or fear death or participate in the world. He was teaching just the opposite of what you are saying.

And why do I say that? I say that BECAUSE of the very reason you REFUSE to quote what Martin Luther actually said! You keep quoting yourself & Father O'Hare's lie. If you will go this far to sin boldly, then I will have no choice but to block you. You blocked another individual awhile back because they slandered you & said you were a pervert, which wasn't true. They bore false witness about you. But when you turn around & do something similar & just as bad, you deny you are doing it & stubbornly persist in promoting a quote that the person never made. The passage in Heb 10:28 comes to mind that says one who is willingly continuing to sin is 'insulting/despising/outraging the Spirit of grace.'


5/25/17 4:30 PM 
brashdoc
Over 2,000 Posts (3,407)
Chehalis, WA

(conclusion)


The Lord brought to mind to me as I was writing this where I did a general summary of a quote of Mr. A.E. Knoch--pointed out by a certain poster on here--where I summarized him as saying in effect & put a portion in caps: "A.E. Knoch effectively said Jesus' teachings were 'a GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT.' " What he actually said was: 'A PRACTICAL DISAPPOINT.' It didn't change the meaning of what Mr. Knoch was saying but I summarized what he said as great vs practical. I was wrong. I admit I misquoted him on one word, even though it didn't change the meaning of his false teaching. The following quote of 'BITTER DISAPPOINTMENT' in caps that I wrote WAS ACCURATE as I showed in A.E. Knoch's full quote.

We all do these things at times but when we are in error, we need to make it right. I have done so. Thank you, Lord.


5/25/17 5:21 PM 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,259)
Kingman, AZ
online now!


*
"We Catholics have some — and not some, many — who believe they possess the absolute truth and go ahead dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil. They do evil. I say this because it is my Church." [The pope] further added that "fundamentalism is more idolatry than actual religion, warning that 'ideas and false certainties' can take the place of faith, love, and God." -Pope Francis

Ludlow says: "[Pope] Francis is an utter idiot and is one of the worst popes in history."


5/25/17 7:02 PM 

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,723)
Brantford, ON

1 Corinthians is an interesting study I think. I find it interesting for it is as applicable today, as it was to the people at Corinth.

1 Corinthians 3 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

3 For you are still [unspiritual, having the nature] of the flesh [under the control of ordinary impulses]. For as long as [there are] envying and jealousy and wrangling and factions among you, are you not unspiritual and of the flesh, behaving yourselves after a human standard and like mere (unchanged) men?
4 For when one says, I belong to Paul, and another, I belong to Apollos, are you not [proving yourselves] ordinary (unchanged) men?
5 What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Ministering servants [not heads of parties] through whom you believed, even as the Lord appointed to each his task:
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God [all the while] was making it grow and [He] gave the increase.


Kinda sounds familiar, doesn`t it? We still argue over who we 'belong to' in Christianity, which "tribe is true and which is not. Kinda like a team sport.

But this is the kicker, and one we should be aware of. When you support the one side you are aligned with, by attacking the other team? In the end, its God you are attacking. Read verse 5, "even as the Lord appointed to each his task:".

Is there room for differences? Sure, jump down to cverse 10 :

10 According to the grace (the special endowment for my task) of God bestowed on me, like a skillful architect and master builder I laid [the] foundation, and now another [man] is building upon it. But let each [man] be careful how he builds upon it,
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is [already] laid, which is Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

But no matter who we follow, at the pinnacle? Is always Jesus.

Found again later in verse 21.

21 So let no one exult proudly concerning men [boasting of having this or that man as a leader], for all things are yours,
22 Whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas (Peter), or the universe or life or death, or the immediate and [h]threatening present or the [subsequent and uncertain] future—all are yours,
23 And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

If you read the chapters, Paul is dealing with factions with in the church. Much like on here. But he makes it clear, that its Jesus that supersedes all other, "leaders".

So what happens when one attacks another by insinuation and lies? He is in fact, attacking Christ.

And he asks this question in chapter 4:

21 Now which do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod of correction, or with love and in a spirit of gentleness?


5/25/17 7:58 PM 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,259)
Kingman, AZ
online now!


*
"Yes, I speak for God. -Ludlow

The Church speaks for Jesus.

The Catholic Church speaks for God.

Jesus IS the Church, and the Church is Jesus.
Jesus=Church
Church=Jesus
Jesus=Church
Church=Jesus
Jesus=Church
Church=Jesus" -Ludlow

So, as a Christian, do you believe that Jesus died for your sins?

No, not at all according to Catholic Ludlow:
"Jesus died so we could have the grace to repent and go to Confession," "[to a validly ordained Catholic priest]"


5/26/17 9:47 AM 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (36,368)
Panama City, FL
online now!


Brashdoc, I have seen some people in denial but you take the cake. You correctly quote Martin Luther as saying, If you sin, sin boldly, but believe more boldly still" then you deny he said it! You have always quite righly asserted that God is a Trinity and that Jesus is divine. Why can't you see through the lies and perfidy of Martin Luther?


Every Christian must choose between Martin Luther, Protestantism, and self-indulgence, or Jesus Christ, Catholicism, and righteousness. I'm praying you will make the right choice, Brashdoc.


5/27/17 10:01 PM 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,259)
Kingman, AZ
online now!


*
Ludlow says:
"Every Christian must choose between Martin Luther, Protestantism, and self-indulgence, or Jesus Christ, Catholicism, and righteousness. I'm praying you will make the right choice, Brashdoc."

==========================================

OUTRAGEOUS!



5/27/17 11:13 PM 
brashdoc
Over 2,000 Posts (3,407)
Chehalis, WA

Thanks for the good word, Rich! I needed that.

Deception is an amazing thing. A deceived person does not know they are deceived. Only by the power of God can one come to their senses & escape from the snare of the devil.

Does everyone fall short of the glory of God & why?

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned & fallen short of the glory of God.

Rom 3:1-27 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, the Jews HAVE BEEN ENTRUSTED WITH THE VERY WORDS OF GOD. 3What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true & every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that U may be proved right when U speak & prevail when U judge.” 5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing His wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not!

If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness & so increases His glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? NONE AT ALL! For we have already made the charge that Jews & Gentiles alike are all under THE POWR OF SIN. There is no one righteous, not even one...Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,i through the SHEDDING OF HIS BLOOD—to be received BY FAITH. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand UNPUNISHED— 26he did it to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be JUST & the one who justifies those who have FAITH IN JESUS. 27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded.


5/28/17 3:59 AM 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,259)
Kingman, AZ
online now!


*
Ludlow says:
"Every Christian must choose between Martin Luther, Protestantism, and self-indulgence, or Jesus Christ, Catholicism, and righteousness. I'm praying you will make the right choice, Brashdoc."

===========================================================

self-righteous:
adjective
having or characterized by a certainty, especially an unfounded one, that one is totally correct or morally superior.